Over-oaking

[Rift485]

So. I picked up a virgin American Oak 2L cask with a medium char to do some home aging. Due to the small size, a greater percentage of the scotch comes in contact with the wood so you can achieve similar results to distillery aging in a fraction of the time.

I was reading through the "manual" and it said to be careful not to age the scotch for too long in the beginning since the wood is fresh and you run the risk of over-oaking the scotch.

Then I was online looking at scotches I will never be able to afford, let alone taste. The Macallan 62 was one of them, among many others.

Ok. So if I age a 10 year old scotch in a new small barrel for more than 2 weeks the oak ruins the scotch but aging a Macallan in a full size barrel for 60 years gives us the milk of the gods?

What's the difference here? Is it the tannins in the oak that are leaching more heavily in the beginning and override whatever effects the scotch being absorbed, ejected, and re-absorbed by the oak has on the taste? Or something else? Am I missing something in the equation?

[Big Mac]

Most scotch whisky is matured in oak casks that have previously been used, the scotch whisky companies use former American bourbon, European sherry and wine casks. They reuse these casks again and again, some casks have a life span of 50 years. They do sometimes use new oak but it has a powerful effect on the whisky and the smaller the cask the more intense an effect the wood will have on the whisky.

You could try storing water in your cask for a while just to tame it a little.

[Bookie]

That is a good tip from Mac, it would be a good idea to store some water in the cask for some time perhaps even renewing the water every week or so as the virgin oak will over power your whisky in a short time in such a smalll cask. Good luck i hope it works out for you.

[Calder]

You could even attempt your own cask finish by maturing a sherry or port of your choice in the cask first to season the cask then adding the whisky of your choice (obviously remove the sherry or port first). Good luck with it.

[sorren]

I have done this a number of times, but I was told never to leave water in the cask for more than a few hours.. If you want to store something in there I would go down the port/ sherry/ wine or bourbon line, I stored my Whisky for between 2-6 months, and also did some port and sherry finishes, it's great fun and it's pretty interesting what results you will get, good luck and enjoy..

[opelfruit]

I'd season the cask with a neutral spirit first, most probably vodka.

In terms of aging;

Please don't put a normal bottle of whisky into the cask, it'll ruin the whisky. When malt spirit goes into a cask it does so pure, and at high strength. The stuff in the bottle has been (most likely) vatted, coloured, watered down and chill filtered etc so it's just isn't the same stuff. Also, if aging in your house he temperature will be higher consistently than it would be in a scotch warehouse, it's the rate of change and number of changes of temperature and humidity that caused the whisky to age and gain complexity. If your house it's consistent so it won't age well.

Also, it's economies of scale. A whisky barrel is about 200 liters, a sherry hogshead is much more, so after 60 years it may loose 70-80% volume over that length of time in evaporation, if you try to force the same results in a short time you end up with a thimble full of oak soup.

You need to do some very brief periods of barrel finishing to already bottled whisky, or a few months of aging with some malt spirit. Anything else is a bad idea




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"Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whisky is barely enough."

[Quaich1]

Excellent points and suggestions being made here with this thread. I have a number of friends here in Southern Ontario Canada who make their own wine in barrels. Living in an area where there are about 75 actual commercial wineries in less than a 75 kilometer area here in the Niagara Peninsula precipitates a lot of interest and enthusiasm in general to attempt wine making though I myself have never given it a try. However, in speaking to many who have, the variables involved and the threshold between success and failure is so very narrow. The temperature variable which was brought up is a very key element for both wine and whisky making.
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"Always carry a large flagon of whisky in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake."
W.C. Fields (1880-1946)

[Craven]

These small casks are notorious for leaking so before putting in your whisky I would fill it with water to see if it is water tight. If it does leak, leave the water in as it will swell the oak and hopefully stop the leaks. If you are planning some sort of wine or sherry finish then do this with the wine. Water and wine is much cheaper to have leaking out onto the floor.

Check your whisky regularly as it really is very easy to over oak it in a matter of weeks and the angels share/leaks can take a fair bit from the small cask so have a bottle for topping it up. It can be an expensive but fun experiment.

Others mention temperature, when i tried i kept mine in a corner of the garage.

[Rift485]

I'm so happy I posted this question as there are sadly few folks over here that age their own spirits so everything I knew I read online, and it wasn't tailored to single malts.


First, an overview of what I did and the results-

Received new virgin oak 2L cask which had a medium char. Per the instructions, I rinsed it out then filled it with water (no leaks!). I let the water sit in the barrel for 1 week. Next, I emptied it and put in a full cask worth of Glenmorangie 10. After 2 weeks, I removed that and am happy with the results. Definitely gained more body and tastes a bit smoother than before.

With round 1 a success, I decided to foolishly push the limits. So, next round I filled up the cask with Glenmorangie Nectar D'Or, thinking the extra oak would help even out the sweetness of the Sauternes cask finish. If 2 weeks was good, 1 month must be better, right!

Wrong. The stuff tastes like garbage, which was the reason I made this post. Most of the Sauternes taste is gone and was replaced with a sharp, almost bitter aspect. Over-Oaked Noooooo! Wish I had posted this sooner.


I have a couple follow up questions, especially regarding what you said opelfruit.

[Alastair]

Did you dump the ruined Glenmorangie Nectar D'Or? If not why not keep it in the cask for another month or even a few months just to tame the cask a little then dump the Glenmorangie Nectar D'Or. Another idea would be to put a cheap bourbon into the cask to tame/season it, after all most scotch is matured in ex-bourbon barrels. Then experiment with cheaper single malts in the cask, monitor it regularly.

Personally i wouldn't put vodka in it, IMO opinion it is not entirely neutral.

You can buy "new make spirit" which is whisky straight from the still which hasn't had any maturation and is bottled at high strength, usually around 63% which is around the strength distillers fill the casks. You can get new make bourbon such as Buffalo Trace's White Dog, or an American Single Malt Spirit named Wasmund's which has been aged for only 30 days. A few Scotch whisky distilleries have released some new make spirit in the past such as Glenglassaugh, Highland Park, Bruichladdich, Bladnoch and Abhainn Dearg but these were only small limited releases and you may not be able to get these now.

[sorren]

Shame about the nector d or, but as said you could leave it in but you also run the risk of tainting your next Whisky, with my barrels I found the second fill seemed to taint unless I used cask strength whiskys, also keep trying the Whisky, you don't need to pour too much, as soon as you detect the slightest change for the worse bottle it, I also tried the new make route and was impressed but not sure it works as well in the smaller barrels, better results from 10l -25l , had very good results from the port finish, I have kept my barrels in both the garage( varying temps ) and the lounge, both had good results.. I never left the water in for more than half a day, and was lucky enough to have no leaks,

[opelfruit]

The idea being that vodka would take the big hit from the new oak, take out the bitterness you'll get from first fill thus taming the cask somewhat without imparting much flavour back into the cask. Filling with bourbon first will turn it into an ex bourbon cask and I assumed you wanted the effect of new oak without the bourbon, sherry etc flavour compounds.

watered and filtered whisky is nowhere near as volatile as new make or cask strength whisky. The volatility is what causes higher cask interaction and leaching of flavours from the wood. Filtered whisky lack the conginers that carry the fatty flavour and texture molecules so again less cask interaction.

you get aging when whisky moves in and out of the oak when the spirit and wood both contract and expand. This happens as humidity and temperature change, ie over the seasons. Consistent temps are good for smoothness I your mass produced bottling, extremes are better for complexity and flavour. You won't get extremes I your house, you are more likely to get them in the garage. You need some good airflow too, stale air isn't good air and dries, it lacks moisture which is needed for good aging.
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"Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whisky is barely enough."