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MJ75
Single Malt Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: Auction vs Retail prices |
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It is amazing how people are paying more in the auctions for bottles which can still be found for less in the retail market. For example. the last two bottles of Arran Orkney Bere made £50 each, so the buyer pays £56 + delivery per bottle. Yet if you shop around the same bottle can be had for £43.20 each retail plus a one off delivery charge of £5 for multiple bottles. I'm not sure if Orkney Bere is true investment grade whisky but I'm sure you all get the point I'm making. There are two in this weeks current auction already at £45 each as of now. It will be interesting to see if they go even higher. I'm half tempted to buy a few bottles and stach them away for 10 years.
I've seen the same thing with Ardbeg bottles too. It's bizarre! |
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Blackadder
Master Of Malts
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 1734
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Some bottles are only available in the UK therefore overseas buyers cant always get a hold of certain bottles unless UK based online sellers ship to their country. They sometimes may have no option other than to pay over the retail price at auction to get hold of certain bottles. There is also auction fever which can often lead to bidders bidding more than what a bottle is worth.
It is hard to say the way pricing will go but the way i see it is, if you only buy whisky you would drink yourself and only buy it at retail release price and it doesnt accumulate in value then you can simply drink it. |
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MJ75
Single Malt Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think it must be auction fever as the retailers I've seen offering good deals do ship abroad to most countries.
I agree on the principle of only buying what you'd be happy to drink or at least try! And on that note, I'm off to place an order.  |
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Kray
Master Of Malts
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Posts: 362
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| It is hard to say which way the secondary whisky market will go in the future. For a while now rarer and sought after distillery releases have accumulated in price quite quickly and the the producers have seen this and started increasing the release prices which means there is often little to be made now by the collector. |
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MJ75
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Last night I saw a bottle make £350. It was from a pack of five seperate bottle types. I was somewhat surprised by this and so did a quick search online to see if I could locate any of these packs in the UK. There was just one company that had three in stock.
I purchased all three for £175 each! I realise that current prices are no guide to future performance, but this strikes me as ridiculous. The supplier also ships abroad, and as the sought after bottle is from a silent still I don't think future large scale releases will have any impact though.
If I can achieve similar sales with just two of the sought after Port Ellen bottles, I'll have one bottle for me, and 12 others for free. It sounds easy in theory, I'm not sure it can be that easy though can it?
P.S Apologies to those that dislike whisky investment being discussed on here. It's just that the whole world of scotch seems to be changing a lot these last couple of years and I think it relevant. On the flip side I did see a few bottles go for less than retail too, so it's not all bad news! |
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MJ75
Single Malt Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Last night I saw a bottle make £350. It was from a pack of five seperate bottle types. I was somewhat surprised by this and so did a quick search online to see if I could locate any of these packs in the UK. There was just one company that had three in stock.
I purchased all three for £175 each! I realise that current prices are no guide to future performance, but this strikes me as ridiculous. The supplier also ships abroad, and as the sought after bottle is from a silent still I don't think future large scale releases will have any impact though.
If I can achieve similar sales with just two of the sought after Port Ellen bottles, I'll have one bottle for me, and 12 others for free. It sounds easy in theory, I'm not sure it can be that easy though can it?
P.S Apologies to those that dislike whisky investment being discussed on here. It's just that the whole world of scotch seems to be changing a lot these last couple of years and I think it relevant. On the flip side I did see a few bottles go for less than retail too, so it's not all bad news! |
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albo
Master Of Malts
Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats MJ you'll have made yourself a tidy sum there. Chances are you'll lose it all in the long run on distillery standard bottles add this kind of practice drives up prices. But enjoy this victory   |
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MJ75
Single Malt Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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It needs to sell first. 
It could have been a couple of naïve and excitable foreign bidders losing the plot whilst slightly inebriated last night.
From what I can see, demand is struggling to meet supply due to an increase in wealth from China and India, in a similar way that food prices will increase over the years. The same thing happened with the very best fine wine investments over a longer period.
As wealthy Chinese want to become more 'western' they buy up what they perceive as high end, western products, good scotch being one of them. So I think people can either accept this sad state of affairs. Or, do the Scotch industry some good, buy up a few GENUINE limited edition releases from a decent distillery, hold onto some and then tax the chinks et al by selling them for inflated prices whilst everyone enjoys their 'free' bottles.
In short, if you cannae beat them..........
I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts. |
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albo
Master Of Malts
Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| MJ75 wrote: | It needs to sell first.
It could have been a couple of naïve and excitable foreign bidders losing the plot whilst slightly inebriated last night.
From what I can see, demand is struggling to meet supply due to an increase in wealth from China and India, in a similar way that food prices will increase over the years. The same thing happened with the very best fine wine investments over a longer period.
As wealthy Chinese want to become more 'western' they buy up what they perceive as high end, western products, good scotch being one of them. So I think people can either accept this sad state of affairs. Or, do the Scotch industry some good, buy up a few GENUINE limited edition releases from a decent distillery, hold onto some and then tax the chinks et al by selling them for inflated prices whilst everyone enjoys their 'free' bottles.
In short, if you cannae beat them..........
I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts. |
your not taking into account is the distilleries doing exactly what any business would do and that's watch the market place an price accordingly. The higher these 2nd hand sales go the more the distilleries will push up their prices to get in on the action. proof being the latest Bowmore release a 23yo bottle one of 12,000 bottles costs £380 do you honestly think that if there was no thriving 2nd hand market Bowmore would even think about asking for more than £150 tops for that bottle?
As I said I'm not saying what is or isn't the right to do every one had the right to ride on this gravy train of they wish. Just remember when you do so you're adding to current rise in prices. |
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MJ75
Single Malt Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 63
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| albo wrote: |
your not taking into account is the distilleries doing exactly what any business would do and that's watch the market place an price accordingly. The higher these 2nd hand sales go the more the distilleries will push up their prices to get in on the action. proof being the latest Bowmore release a 23yo bottle one of 12,000 bottles costs £380 do you honestly think that if there was no thriving 2nd hand market Bowmore would even think about asking for more than £150 tops for that bottle?
As I said I'm not saying what is or isn't the right to do every one had the right to ride on this gravy train of they wish. Just remember when you do so you're adding to current rise in prices. |
Yes and no. I read there was less than 10,000 bottles sold in UK auctions in the first half of this year. How do you think that compares to exports to China, India and other markets taking a keen interest in scotch?
I don't believe auctions are the main factor in pushing up prices. Global demand, increased inflation and that ridiculous duty escalator introduced by the last Labour government are all contributing factors.
The Bowmore release you mention is a ridiculous price, I even started a thread on here about it. But I'm not sure auctions are pushing up the prices of core product lines. Does anyone have any hard evidence to suggest this is the case?
I think more people could exploit auctions though, I saw some bottles of Ardbeg go for less than retail price, so it's not all bad, and there is an opportunity for free booze for those prepared to play the game. At least this is the way I see things at present. The market is liable to change as we all know. |
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drPete
Master Of Malts
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 312
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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It's an interesting debate. Sadly, I feel the industry is taking us for a ride with all of the NAS/it's all about colour/ blah blah rubbish.
In fact I've become a bit cynical about it - google whisky cynic for my thoughts if interested.
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