Sherried malt advice please

[hemicellulose]

Hello all. I am new here. Not new to drinking, but new to really having a go at exploring Scottish whisky in a more serious way. I've been enjoying getting to know the breadth of styles and flavours.

Here is my first query for the knowledgeable folks here. Recently, in my exploration I have been parsing my way through the different predominantly sherry aged expressions. Mostly age statements, as I am of firm mind that NAS whisky is for shareholders and not drinkers. What I have discovered though is I quite like elements of the bottles I have tried, but not found one that seems complete. Perhaps an example or two.

Aberlour 16 has perhaps the greatest nose of any whisky I've ever encountered. However, the taste, though I find no what I would perceive as "off flavours", I can best describe as "flat". It is very clean, and quite nice, but uncomplicated which leaves me wanting there to be more depth. More to explore.

Contrasted to that, Glendronach 12 has much less nose. The flavour seems to have some sour notes I am not particularly fond of in the mid-palate, but it is rich, and subsequent sips and tastings yield much more to explore. Additionally there is much more of what I would call a rich "mouth-feel".

I suppose what I am hoping to get opinions on is where my next efforts should be placed in this tasting area. I realize all I can receive is opinion as people's tastes vary (indeed a good friend of mine whose daily dram is Balvenie 12 Double Wood found Aberlour 16 to be quite a hit for him). Perhaps what I seek is complexity? Or an "oily" texture? I do not yet know enough to be sure of my terminology, but I would be more than happy to receive suggestions of what to try next. I've been thinking Glenfarclas or Tamdhu. Do these seem like reasonable selections given what I have described?

Thanks in advance!
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NAS single malts are made shareholders, not drinkers. Don't think time in the cask is important, have some vodka. If companies were more focused on their whisky stocks and less on their market stocks, there wouldn't be this NAS problem.

[Mark]

Good to have you here hemicellulose

I like they way you put it regards NAS

[Fergie]

Some good suggestions from Mark, I would 2nd the Glenfarclas 12 and 17

[asmazda]

I think to get the nose and taste you are after you have to step up your budget or get lucky with some independent bottlings.

Glenfarclas Family Cask Range (Sherry Hogshead or Sherry Butt not refill)

Glendronach 15 (if you can find it) or 21 (if you can't find the 15 and are willing to pay the bucks) - huge difference between these and the 12

Some other whiskys that are not sherry monsters (but still have nice sherry aromas) and have some peat in them but are nice to try and won't break the bank are:

Highland Park 18

Springbank 15

[James T]

I have yet to find a Tamdhu which I have wanted to buy a second bottle of so not one I would personally recommend particularly if you are seeking complexity.

There are certainly some outstanding whiskies if you want to step up from the 12 and 15 year olds which also means a big step up in price these days.

Glengoyne 21 is good the 25 is outstanding. The Glengoyne Teapot Dram varies from batch to batch but all that I have tried has been superb.

Glendronach and Benriach are known to release some stunning single cask sherried bottling's which are usually worth seeking out, in fact Benriach currently have a new batch about to hit the shelves of the whisky shops http://www.scotchmaltwhisky.co.uk/benriachsinglecaskbatch15.htm

Away from big sherried drams, a few must tries I would suggest are Highland Park 18, Talisker 18 and a recent discovery of mine thanks to this forum is the Glencadam 17 year old Triple Cask Portwood Finish.

Older Glenfarclas and Family Cask bottling's can be very good, but for the price don't overlook the 12 and 17 year old as mentioned by others above.

[deadz101]

I'd recommend the Glendronach 21 for a full sherry hit, but if you can find any of their single cask px or sherry butts then stretch out to these, they are usually released twice a year and they are soo good.

I also second the glengoyne, I've tried their 15, 18, 21 and 25, I preferred the 21 tbh but would take the glendronach 21 if it came to a head to head.

The Glenfarclas also do some lovely work with sherry caks too, I've got bottlings of both the 17 and 25, the 25 is probably the best valued 25yo on the market imho, I find both of them a bit drier than the other ones stated here.

I've tried the Aberlour 16 and found the palate not to my liking either, it was too woody for me, I have tried a few decent a'bunah bottlings over the years, but they have gone ott with pricing on these and I do rate their 18 yo when it was priced at £55 from the distillery shop.

If you can find any Cadenhead bottlings in the states, they usually do decent single cask at a lower pirce than a distilery OB.

The best sherry bottling I've tried is a Yamazaki sherry 2016, but that's a ridiculous dram to find. I haven't tried a macallan 18 sherry, but have tried the 12 sherry, I thought it was ok, my preference would be on the glendronach 12 over it.

A left field recommendation is the hazelburn 13 yo sherry cask strength, or something similar from Campbelltown.

Good luck with the search and welcome aboard!

[Alexppp]

The nose vs. palate observation on the Aberlour 16 and Glendronach 12 is interesting. This is often what happens when a whisky is bottled at 40% ABV, like the Aberlour: the nose might seem enticing and rich, but the palate, after a good start, is flat and doesn't have much development and depth.

By contrast, the Glendronach 12 is bottled at 43% and is non chill-filtered - you'd be surprised at the difference only 3% makes in terms of the mouthfeel and feeling of depth, and the lack of chill-filtering contributes to that as well. I would recommend the Glenfarclas 15, Aberlour a'bunadh and Glenfarclas 105 in particular - the latter two will need quite a few drops of water to get them down to a drinking strength.

[hemicellulose]

Thanks all for the detailed thoughts and suggestions!
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Mark - Thank you for the kind welcome. Glad I didn't offend with my comment about NAS expressions. I certainly wouldn't suggest that all NAS whisky is bad. It's possible I have had a few particularly bad experiences with them, but I've only had to give away one bottle of age statement whisky I just couldn't get through, but there have been several beneficiaries of my fail NAS trials.

Sounds like Glenfarclas might be a good bet given all of the thoughts expressed here. Glengoyne and Dalmore were on the short list too, so I'll have to have a second look at them, though Dalmore is not exactly competitively priced.
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Thanks Fergie for your second on the Glenfarclas!
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asmazda - It's interesting you recommend moving up the age scale. I'll admit to being quite inexperienced in this regard. My approach to this point has pivoted around the assumption that if I like a entry level expression it might be worth coming back to explore something more expensive later, but if I don't like the entry then I suspected I would not be interested in the rest of the line. The expense of further disappointment being so high. Though I do know that distilleries can put out whisky to which I have had markedly different reactions.

My best example of this is Laphroaig. As I make clear in my signature, I have quite a fondness for Laphroaig in general. However, the worst whisky I have had in recent memory is from them as well: Cairdeas 2017 Cast Strength Quarter Cask. It was the worst whisky I have put to my lips. It had all of the charms of what I suspect new make (or rubbing alcohol?) would have if you dosed it with tannin, liquid smoke, and E150. After taking my first sip and nearly doing a honest spit-take, keeping in mind the meaning of the label's reference to friendship, I couldn't help but exclaim "Who would do this to their friends!" Even diluted to double the volume with water, it had a surprising capacity to hold onto the sensation of scalding one's throat. I gave it away with a warning. Months later I found out that it was passed to several other hands and then finally drained down the sink at a fraternity house being deemed undrinkable even by this notoriously finicky group. I now see John Campbell at Laphroaig not only as a master of his craft, but also someone who is willing to play some pretty mean pranks on his "friends".

Still, I do wonder about some of the price jumps as age increases. Highland Park is a good example. Here at least, with a 50% increase in aging time the price jumps threefold. It is hard for me to understand how this could be necessary even with making some calculations about opportunity cost. It is also hard to imagine that increase in quality is threefold. I am still unsure that my bottle of 30 year old Talisker is so much better than the 10 year old to warrant the price difference.

The last bit I'll reply to will possibly make me persona non grata around here even before I've done much. While I appreciate the suggestion of Springbank, I've tried them and didn't like them. I know they are a wonderful independent producer, and I want to like their product. But I found their 12 year, well... Boring. You may not feel free to dismiss all else I say.
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James T - Thanks for the notes on Tamdhu! I might lean towards something else for now, perhaps the Glengoyne you and others here have suggested.. Interesting that you too have suggested older expressions might be more to my liking. If I can get around the maths, perhaps I should try to check out some other expressions. I've never heard of Glencdam. Might have to see if it is even available here. Something more to learn about. Thanks!
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deadz101 -Thanks for the tips on the sherry Glens! Sounds like there are some themes here to which I should take heed. Interesting that you didn't like the Aberlour 16 but rate the 18. Speaks to my learning about age. I would have guessed dismissing the line. At my level of novice it is hard for me to understand how a 16 could be too woody and an 18 better. Interesting!

We don't have much availability of Cadenhead around me unfortunately. I've not been a big fan of Asian whiskies, which has spared me the hell of their price increases, loss of age statement expressions, and increasing rarity that my friends who love those bottles are experiencing. I'd not heard of Hazelburn, but am not a big fan of Springbank as noted above. Believe it not not for Campbelltown I quite like Glen Scotia. Feel free to judge. I make not claims about the sophistication of my palate.
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Alexppp - I couldn't agree more about the ABV issue you raise! I ran into 40% ABV bottlings of Laphroaig 10 for a while. Had to change over to cask strength until I started to come across the 43% again. I didn't notice the difference on the bottle at first, but I did as soon as I tasted it. It took me longer than I'd like to admit to figure out the change in ABV and then that this might have been the cause in the perceived decrease in quality. It was also a relief as the alternative was the Laphroaig was getting significant;y worse.

Thanks for voicing your thoughts on the other bottles as well. I have a bottle of Glendronach 10 and quite like it.

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In the end I think I'll make a bottle of Glenfarclas and maybe one of Gelngoyne or Dalmore my next purchases. Can't thank you all enough! Came for some advice on bottles, ended up learning a lot more about whisky.
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NAS single malts are made shareholders, not drinkers. Don't think time in the cask is important, have some vodka. If companies were more focused on their whisky stocks and less on their market stocks, there wouldn't be this NAS problem.

[lincoln imp]

There is a lot of good advice here but if you want quality and value stay away from Macallan and Dalmore as they are not very good, I have tried the full Dalmore range up to 21 year and they are very poor, as for Macallan basically for the quality of what is in the bottle you are being ripped off and paying for a reputaion that bears absolutely no resemblance to the product they put out now, some will disagree as both have loyal followings but you can but better for the money than these 2.

Try Kilkerran 12 for £35-£40 its got 30% sherry casks?


If you want more sherry the Benriach 20 year dark blue label from 2015 onwards is a nice dram for £95
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Pour me a glass please.

[asmazda]

[hemicellulose]

Hi Lincoln Imp - Thanks for the tips! I've decided against the Dalmore after reading further reviews. I feel as though I should try both that and Macallan someday, but nothing is pushing me to do so currently. They do both, as you point out, seem to be a bit more coin for what you are getting. At least as far as I can assess without tasting them.

HI Asmazda - I fully admit I have done no proper vertical tastings, so my understanding of how expressions vary from the same distiller with age is scant. I suppose I hope it is possible to ascertain something of a "house style" from their entry level product. To me this would seem a good strategy; hook folks on the entry level and get them interested in purchasing older and pricier bottles. I know I am curious about Laphroaig and Highland Park's older expressions because I like the younger so much. That said, my experience with NAS bottles does let me know that a single distillery can certainly produce varied products. I am fortunate enough to have a Talisker 30 at my disposal, and often have their 10 year on hand. Perhaps I should buy a bottle of their 18, get together with a friend and do a proper vertical tasting.

Again, I make no claims to expertise by an measure and as I gain experience I may well discover I have been approaching this with completely incorrect logic. I absolutely believe that your take may well be accurate. But budget keeps me on this tack for the time being. I get the feeling your budget is a bit different than mine. Of the, likely excellent bottles, you listed the Old Pulteney is the only one that is affordable. I guess given that I had Springbank 10 and was unimpressed, I can't imagine dropping the equivalent of about £300 on their 21 year old. I don't feel I can't afford to take the risk on a full bottle for more expensive expressions. Unfortunately, I also don't have a good bar here to try others (well at lest not one that serves edible food to take with the whisky), and scant few folks I know who also drink Scottish whisky (just loads of bourbon drinkers in the area who are quite excited that the impending, quixotic trade war will potentially cause prices to drop domestically).

None of this is meant to suggest I don't appreciate the suggestions. I quite honestly do. Hopefully someday I'll be in a position to take that advice and move up the ladder as it were. Or, I should just find a way to get back to Scotland and do tastings at distilleries. That seems like something to save for of find a work excuse to get there.
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NAS single malts are made shareholders, not drinkers. Don't think time in the cask is important, have some vodka. If companies were more focused on their whisky stocks and less on their market stocks, there wouldn't be this NAS problem.

[mistah]

It's even more complicated than you realise. Often whiskies will get better (or worse) after a bit of oxidation in the bottle after opening. I too was underwhelmed by the Springbank 10 on opening, however it went through an excellent "purple patch" after it had been opened for a few weeks and then went a bit flabby towards the end. Then there's the whole issue of batch variation.

I'd be inclined to persevere with the whisky bar that you mentioned (there's no need to eat fine food with whisky). The only real way to get an idea of what you like is to stop trying to be over-analytical about it and just try as many whiskies as you can.

[hemicellulose]

Thanks mistah! I've made plans to head over to taste a few at the whisky bar soon.
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NAS single malts are made shareholders, not drinkers. Don't think time in the cask is important, have some vodka. If companies were more focused on their whisky stocks and less on their market stocks, there wouldn't be this NAS problem.

[MW Plaster]

Dalmore 12 or 15 - Divisive whiskys? No doubt. I love Dalmore, though. Definitely unique and not for everyone. Don't let the rep turn you off of, at least, trying one. It did me, but when I finally bought the 12, I loved it and still do. It is a staple of mine. For me, the 15 is even better, but pricey here.

Macallan 12 - Another big boy with lots of rep and lots of hate. I recommend it. I find it delicious and it has touched only ex sherry wood.

[Alexppp]